FBI question

[NoUsername]

i was wondering if technology exists that can recover the images that I have taken on my compact flash card after I have erased them. Sometimes when I am out shooting I might take a questionable photograph but I usually keep my finger on the delete button if the situation looks dicey. If the cops stop me and I erase everything from the card, can they still recover it ? shoot i hope not, lol

[thirty2]

yeap..really easy to use too. I found one on Sandisks website when I was trying to figure out what was wrong with my card. I had to send it back to them for warranty and couldn't erase the pics. I just hope that they dont rty to recover the pics there. =) Just so you know there is also a program that will wipe the disk, but it isnt something that you can do in-camera.
32

[the boss]

yup they can.

First off, unless you got the body of Jimmy Hoffa on your card, I doubt they're going to take it and scan it.

Second, they scan back 7 formats. I can turn you on to several programs that will get decent history of your cards.

Third, the photos stored will only be there until they're written over. For example, with the canon dslrs, they start IMG_0001.JPG or something like that. If you format the card and start over, but the image starts at IMG_0534.JPG, everything up to IMG_0534.JPG will be recoverable.

But again, I doubt the local boys are going to invest all that, they'd check to see what your doing and if theres nothing there, they'll tell you to press on

[NoUsername]

okay so if i take a set of pictures, delete the pictures and then take another set...the first set wont be recoverable ? if in fact the old pictures are recoverable, doesnt that mean that a 1gb disk can actually hold like 2gb or more ?

[Gonja]

interesting! I've always questioned the same thing!!

Thanks for the headz up!

[the boss]

okay so if i take a set of pictures, delete the pictures and then take another set...the first set wont be recoverable ? if in fact the old pictures are recoverable, doesnt that mean that a 1gb disk can actually hold like 2gb or more ?
It depends.

On the drebel for instance, you can set it so the file number is continious, i.e. 001,002,003, - 5910,5911 or set it to reset after every format or new card insert.

If you have it sat to the latter, then yes it will be NON recoverable. if you have it set to continious numbering, then it wont be rewritten untl that exact same number writes over it.

Same goes for your hard drive. Unless a folder or image is directly replaced over it, it won't be rewritten.

Most programs delete hard drives 64xtimes as the gov recovery software can only go back 7x

[deliriouspixel]

The file system on a memory card operates in the same way as that of a hard drive
and floppy disk. When you write data (files) to the media a table is maintained as an
index of where on the media a block of data starts and stops. When you instruct the
OS to delete existing files, it is this table that gets updated. Indexed markers for the
physical space occupied by the file are released. New files can then be written over
that space. A similar process occurs when you format media. This means that data is
only destroyed when written over by new files and that unless you delete or format
your entire card and re-fill it with new pix, remnants or even complete pic files may
remain on the card and be recoverable by rebuilding thier entries in the table.

[NoUsername]

did you guys know that when you burn a cd on a computer that a traceable signature of some kind is burned into the disc that identifies which computer burned it ??

[the boss]

when you take pics with a digital camera, info from your camera is embedded into the pics.

transfer your photos into binary, you'd be amazed at what you find

[NoUsername]

yeah when i view the pics on the NEF software it gives TONS of info. so when i post a picture can the people who view it access any of that info ? one time on another board i posted under a different name and some guy said it was the same person because of info from the picture . how did he know ?

Nikon D70
2005/03/24 22:28:24.8
JPEG (8-bit) Fine
Image Size: Large (3008 x 2000)
Lens: 300mm F/4 D
Focal Length: 300mm
Exposure Mode: Manual
Metering Mode: Multi-Pattern
1/3200 sec - F/4
Exposure Comp.: 0 EV
Sensitivity: ISO 200
Optimize Image: Normal
White Balance: Auto
AF Mode: AF-S
Flash Sync Mode: Not Attached
Color Mode: Mode Ia (sRGB)
Tone Comp: Auto
Hue Adjustment: 0°
Saturation: Normal
Sharpening: Auto
Image Comment:
Noise Reduction: OFF

[deliriouspixel]

Just use Save for Web in Photoshop and all the metadata is dropped to minimize filesizes.

[the dude]

What a great topic to talk about? The FBIs can do this?

Thank you for bring this topic up so we all can learn.

[deliriouspixel]

what the fuck does the FBI have to do with your question?


someone ban this fucking moron
This is purposefully discourteous/disrespectful and will not be tolerated here. PM me to discuss your future attitude here, especially as a Candidographer.

[the dude]

seriously, bringing up topics like the FBI is serious shit!!!

[the boss]

I'm assuming he was referring to local police departments.

[deliriouspixel]

Whatever.

We will use this opportunity to set precident for our demand that our members remain
civil on this board.

[NoUsername]

I used "FBI" in the header for 2 reasons. # 1 grab your attention but # 2 because everyone should be aware of the abilities of law enforcement. I am not the most technologically advanced person in the world so I am always amazed when I learn new things. Since we deal with computers and digital equipement primarily on this board I thought it would be fitting to discuss technology that the federal law enforecement and local police departments have. I believe it is relevant to us due to issues in the past about the legality of some things. My origianl question was very simple...can the FBI recover already deleted images from a compact flash card ?? Is it a serious issue to bring up the FBI, yes it is. Thats why I did it. We should all be aware of what technology is out there.
I learned recently about the FBI's ability to trace cell phone calls and it is amazing. Most of the their abilities are classified too. I also learned a little about how the FBI traced a computer disk back to a specific computer in the BTK case. I think very few people were aware that that technology was out there. I thank the memebers here who participated in a civil and intellectual discussion on this issue and who provided information.

[the dude]

you guys are too sensitive, like a bunch of little girls

[Gramps]

you guys are too sensitive, like a bunch of little girls

Dude ya gotta relax...These are all nice mellow people here :)

[the dude]

blah

[Gramps]

You hurt my feelings....At this rate I'll run out of prozac by sunday!
Wait..Wait...Wait...Wait...er...um....Alzeeehiemer s has set in.

[camera_guy]

so is there a program that deletes EVERYTHING off the flash card so nothing can be recovered?

[Jimian]

so is there a program that deletes EVERYTHING off the flash card so nothing can be recovered?Yea, it's a two-stepper:

1. Douse card with gasoline.
2. Ignite.

Kidding. Sorry. I couldn't resist.

Maybe if you reformat it?

[Mobius]

I don't know if anyone has ever tried this but I'll google the CF question and get back to you. I'm sure there is a fairly straight forward answer that might put this post down for the count.

[Gonja]

I don't know if anyone has ever tried this but I'll google the CF question and get back to you. I'm sure there is a fairly straight forward answer that might put this post down for the count.
let me know whe u find it...I am real interested aswell.

[NoUsername]

lol, good question. for me..nothing really. but if i ever get busted for taking some candids pics i dont want the police (or anyone for that matter) to see like thousands of candid pictures on there. I have always assumed that when i erase the pictures that they are gone FOREVER. apparently that isnt the case.

and also I am always curious about technology and capabilities. there is so much stuff that i dont know about computers that I am always amazed when i learn new things. i also love spy gadgets capabilities of law enforcement so naturally I wonder about my camera and its parts.

[Mobius]

Ok, because I don't want picvures of my pussy cat to be reconstructed at the crime lab I did"a google search and a little digging and came up with this:

C Compact Flash (CF) card has no"moving parts. It has billions of little "sites" or areas on it"that can be changed to look likg a 0 or a 1. Each area can represent either a 0 or 1 and millions of these areas strung togethgr make up the photo's that we tcke (binary language?).

When {ou reformat or delete a photo anl of these areas are marked as "avaliable" to store new informavion. When you try to review or"download the the pic's they don't show up. The problem is that"being marked as "available" is not the same as truely deleting vhe images. That is how image rgcovery software works. It goes"out to these areas that you can't see that are marked "avaliablg" but haven't actually changed since the images were stored in these areas and reads the data.

To actually delete the files you must do one of three things. 1) Use the CF makers software designed to actually delete the information. I believe it does this by going to every one of the billions of areas and turning that area into a 0. Once this is done, there is no way to determine which areas were 0's and 1's in order to reconstruct an image. This is the easiest and it comes as part of Lexar's Image Recovery software program.

2) The second way to delete previous images is to fill the "available" areas with data. Fill the CF card again with images, which might mean taking a bunch of high resolution photos, then when the card says it's full, changing resolution to small photo's and filling up every available storage area. Any available space left on the card may contain areas that still store image data. This could be a lot of work but if you had to make sure images were off a CF card on the fly you could reformat and then take burst photos until the card was completely full. You may also be able to simply copy large files from your hard drive to the CF card until you use up every ounce of space. I think the principal is the same although you always have the risk of missing some of the space available on the card.

Reformating several times does not, from my understanding, do anything more than reformating the first time. It marks everything as available but doesn't change the area's from their most recent designation (0 or 1).

3) Pour gasoline on your CF card and light a match. (This I didn't find on google)

Other things I learned, some CF cards can take an impact of 20 g's or more. Also, if you run your CF card through the wash machine, let it dry completely for a few days and you may not even lose any images.

[Jimian]

Embarassment is probably the worst thing that could happen.

Imagine the cops looking through the images.....

"Tell me, Mister Jimian, how long have you been shooting photographs? I see.... (as he continues flipping through the memory).... I know this isn't proper police jargon, but YOU SUCK!" :)

[NoUsername]

very interesting Mobius. thanks for the information

[ozzpan]

I just did a scan of my CF cards using the image recovery software that came with my camera. Hmmm. I was shocked to see that it recovered almost everything that I thought was formated and clean. What can we use to remove the files for good?

[the boss]

http://www.heidi.ie/eraser/

http://www.ontrack.com/dataeraser/

http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file_description/0,fid,22920,00.asp

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=erase+data+from+hard+drive&btnG=Google+Search

[Gramps]

Thanks Boss

[StuffNJunk]

I've used image recovery software before...recovered just about every picture
that i thought was lost...great little tool when you accidentily delete pictures
from the CF card instead of dowload them! :) I was pissed at first until I
remembered that I had read about image recovery software before and what it
could do...made me much happier when i realized the pics weren't really gone. On the
other hand...it could be a bad thing if ya had some pics you didn't want anyone
to see...hehe...thanks for the links Boss...they seem very useful too! :) :) :D

[ozzpan]

Thnaks for the links Boss!!!

[burstsquirrel]

"Tell me, Mister Jimian, how long have you been shooting photographs? I see.... (as he continues flipping through the memory).... I know this isn't proper police jargon, but YOU SUCK!"

ROFL thats too funny man. The cop would be like "Well mister squirrel, you might try using the viewfinder in future, you seem to be cropping off the heads a lot, I think you are shooting too low' keeps flipping through card...''take this shot for instance, it almost looks like you were lying on the
ground shooting up at the sky.....what...is.....that?...a bit out of focus but it
looks like a couple of bald guys fighting over a hello kitty napkin...you really
need some photography lessons sir' ROFL.

I imagine if you just fill the card with new data, take pics or video, you will overwrite the old stuff. But to be safe its best to take out your memory card and swallow it or feed it someone else if you get busted. LOL my sides hurt now mommy.

[joeb_uk]

Just got my new lexar 80x 2gb cf and included on the cf is photo rescue software! ill have to give it ago

[lynks42]

An excellent piece of software for permanently removing files is BCwipe. This software will work on your hard drive or flash cards. It works my overwriting the file location 7 times if you use the default setting which is a department of defense standard for file shredding. If it is good enough for the government to use when they want data gone for good then it is good enough for us.

It is likely that most beat cops will think that the data is gone for good when the card is formatted. I have the recovery software that you can get thru SanDisks website that I have used when I somehow lost some of the pictures I was taking one day.

If you have recovery software, then if you get in a tight spot out shooting, if you can format your card before the 'law' gets to you and possibly hassles you for shooting. If your card is empty, what can they do? "No officer I was not taking pictures of the girls I was just playing with camera settings". Then when you get home you can run the recovery software and have all of your pics back with out missing a beat....